Then there is the difference in the actual sound signature and the voicing of the headphones.
The HD800 clearly represent the relaxed signature that’s prevalent in almost all Sennheiser headphones designed for music listening. On recordings that push the lead vocal or instrument very forward, the HD800 may not sound that laid back, but the overall signature is quite relaxed. For this reason, I would never recommend the HD800 for modern Rock and Hard Rock recordings, which require an energetic presentation to make the music alive.
The JH16 is darker sounding than the HD800, but it’s actually more forward and more energetic in character. It definitely blends in to a lot more genres better than the HD800 does. So in a sense, the JH16 is “better” than the HD800 if you’re not limiting your music selection to well recorded pieces. But once you play a well recorded jazz session or a symphony, or an opera, I truly think that the JH16 still can’t match the refinement level of the HD800, provided that your amplifier and your source has enough resolution to show the difference.
The Beyerdynamic T1, is quite marvelous in the treble area, and very good at the rest of the frequency range. But its treble is bound to sound hotter than the JH16, when the recording has treble peaks. On balanced recordings, the T1’s treble clarity is very special, and it’s something that you don’t hear out of the JH16.
I was watching Black Hawk Down with the JH16 (I hooked up the TV receiver’s audio line out to the Burson HA-160 amp and to the JH16), and the JH16 was perfect in creating a big screen cinema feel. The sound of the helicopter rotor and the gun fires always carry some weight, and the JH16 really shines in reproducing that. On the other hand, the HD800 and the Beyerdynamic T1 sounded puny in comparison to the JH16’s bass punch and weight. So, there is give and take.
A JH16 set up is amazingly compact. Especially with the launch of the Pico Sim.
The HD800 needs more gear, bigger gear, to make it sing. This one is actually quite a minimal set up when it comes to the HD800.
The full size headphones, in this case, are more polarized, and require finicky set ups to sound right. But I think a lot of the fun lies in trying to discover that perfect set up. It’ll always be a hard choice between the two. The HD800 is very well-versed in technicalities, and it often gives me goosebumps. The JH16 is more universal sounding, less demanding of the system, and is a champion in bass.
Finally, there is a question of usage. The HD800 belongs to a home set up. Even if you can find a portable set up that’s worthy enough for the HD800 (actually the HM-801 is quite worthy), you simply won’t be using it on the streets. The JH16, on the other hand, shines on the street. Sure, when you’re at home, you can plug the JH16 into your home set up, but I find myself to prefer the comfort of the HD800 when at home. What can I say, they are different tools for different jobs, as much as you won’t be driving an F1 car for WRC racing.
System used for review:
Headphones: Sennheiser HD800, JHAudio JH16Pro
Amplifier: Burson HA-160, HeadAmp Pico Slim
Source: Ipod Nano 5th Gen 16GB, Ipod Classic 120GB, Onkyo ND-S1, Grace m902 DAC
Daniel
Nice comparison Mike. I was just wondering, are you getting the JH-3A system? If yes, please do a comparison against the HD800 again. Thanks.
Mike
Sure thing, Daniel. No promises for now, as the JH-3A is really expensive.
buz
So where would the Mage range now? Considering it costs half of the JH16, it sure should be a bargain but I wonder if the JH5 might be an even better bargain as first custom.
The M-Stage with my D2000 kinda ruined my IEM selection for me 🙁
Mike
Buz, that's a difficult question to answer. But as a rough guide, the Mage pricing is quite spot on, placing it in terms of sound quality between the JH5 and the JH16.
buz
Some claim the Mage has relatively weak bass – so bass heads (for reference, I think the D2000 is just about right bass wise 😉 need not apply there?
buz
Mhh that smiley should have been bass head
Mike
Buz, yes the Mage doesn't have very strong bass punch, although there is plenty of bass presence (it's not thin).
kanon
Hi, mike
How is the soundstage of mage compared to jh16 in depth, width, positioning? Considering you said mage already matched hd800 in its 3Dness
Mike
Hi Kanon, sorry for the slow reply as I’ve been terribly busy with my other job this week. Now, if you read the UM Mage article (http://www.headfonia.com/um-mage-vs/), you’ll notice that I gave some description of the Mage’s soundstage vs the full size headphones’ soundstage. IEMs have a different way of portraying soundstage, and even some of the best ones that I’ve heard, including the Mage and the JH16Pro is very different than full size headphones.
I wrote the Mage vs. article, and the JH16 vs HD800 article, because some friends were asking “How do they compare?”. But the reality is that, the “best” IEM sound still can’t be compared to the “best” full size sound. There are so many things that are different about the way they portray sound, and even only talking about the soundstage, I can’t really say, for example: JH16Pro soundstage: 86%, HD800 soundstage: 92%, or any other numeric scale like that. They’re quite apples to oranges in terms of soundstage.
You can read the JH16 vs HD800 article and the UM Mage vs … article again to get a better feel of how the soundstage is different. Perhaps that’ll answer your curiosity better.
Lastly, the UM Mage and the JH16Pro is not that different in terms of soundstage performance. I haven’t really done an A-B between them, but last week I went back and listened to the Mage after month and months of using the JH, and I didn’t feel that the soundstage performance is inferior to the JH.
Hope that answers your question.
skytiger
hi mike
can you make a comparison between them regarding bodied sound,full sound?
i know hd800 sounds more bodied full sounding but what about jh16 ? is jh16 sounding still like iem ? (At least comparable?)
Mike
Skytiger,
Actually the two don't even deserve to be compared together, and I shouldn't have written this article. The JH16Pro overall is an easier headphone to enjoy. It doesn't require a lot of additional investment, and the sound signature works for most popular music. The HD800, though ultimately better technically, is not as easy to appreciate. You need additional gears to make it shine, and even then, it doesn't have the genre bandwith that the JH16 has.
Full bodied, I think both are quite full bodied in their own way. The JH16 has a fuller low end than the HD800.
Pete
Thanks for the interesting comparison. Vy useful to me as I have the hd800 (with Burson ha160d). So, for the ultimate portable, to work with iphone (sometimes with portable amp), would you recommend the jh16 over the Ultrasone Edition 8?
Anonymous
I personally like the JH16 better than the Ed8, but I’m not saying that the JH16 is the “ultimate” as there is no such thing in audio – it all depends on your personal preferences, music choice, etc.
Pete
Yes, agreed, by “ultimate” I meant amongst current choices – ultrasone edition 8 probably being the best allround closed portable highend headphone (also eyecandy which I am very tempted by!) , and the JH16 probably the best allrounder IEM. Have you ever tried the ACS T1 or T2?
Anonymous
Pete,
Not quite.. the Edition 8 may be the most expensive portable closed headphones around but I wouldn’t call it the best.
As for the JH16, the JH13 may be the better all rounder actually. The JH16 is the bass king. 🙂
Nope on both ACSs, sorry.
Pete
Oh yeah, so which portable closed headphone do you rank highest? The w1000x? L7000?
I LOVE bass, but also I love rich, vivid, creamy sound. In fact the HE 5 LE was the closest to this so far IME, but it leaks too much sound for the office (and doesn’t sound great until it is quite loud). I enjoy the hd800, but miss a creamier sound.
Anonymous
Again, there is no such thing as “highest”, but if you want a rich creamy sound the Ed8 is definitely not that. The Sony Z1000 sounds closer to that, but bass impact is much less than the Ed8’s.
I think you should give the JHs a try. See why so many people love them.