Beyerdynamic DT1350: Death to the HD25-1?

beyerdynamic_dt1350_06

The aging drivers of the Sennheiser HD25-1 beg for a replacement, and if Sennheiser isn’t giving one to us, I would gladly accept a good replacement from Beyerdynamic. But is the DT1350 really has what it takes to put the nails in the HD25-1’s coffins? Let’s take a look.

I’ve noticed for a long time that the HD25-1’s aging drivers are no match for the resolution of modern portables. Anything from the AKG K181DJ, the ATH M-50, the AIAIAI TMA-1, and even the Sennheiser PX100-II (gasp!) clearly had a more resolving, finer quality driver than what the HD25-1 had. But none of them simply had the proper voicing, the forwardness, the punchy bass, the focus and the energy of the HD25-1.

LAST YEAR: THE BEYERDYNAMIC T50P

Last year Beyer tried to take on the HD25-1 with the T50p headphone, the first portable headphone fitted with the Tesla drivers. It was a good attempt. Solid design on the outside paired with a portable version of the Tesla driver found in the flagship T1. Sound like a lot of trouble for the HD25-1. However, fitting problems among other critical issues (i.e midrange, bass) make the T50p a very difficult headphone to recommend.

Not so this time, as Beyer has corrected many of the issues that I found to plague the T50p. Better clamping force results in a more proper isolation of the earpads. Thicker earpads also helps to cure the one big problem the T50p had: bass. Better bass, in addition to a more linear frequency balance from top to bottom and a less problematic midrange. I think the DT1350 has got all the right ingredients. Not only is the Tesla driver fitted into it are years ahead of the old HD25-1 drivers, but the build quality and design are more in sync with whatever Apple product you’re eyeing.

It’s a beautiful design, made from fine materials. It’s probably more beautiful than anything Senn has on the market today.

The high end finishing of the DT1350. It feels very nice in your hand. What headphone can match it?

Bigger and thicker earpads, and stronger clamping force fix the bass issues inherent in the T50p.

Split headband design is also very welcome.

Yes, it also comes with a nice pouch. The HD25-1 is just lucky to be still standing after the fight.

 

POSITIVE VIBES WITH THE DT1350

My initial impression was very positive, so positive that I decided to buy a DT1350 for myself. The Tesla driver had this clinical precision that the HD25-1 can only dream of. Think of a classic Ferrari Dino with a V6 engine: very nice sensual lines and quite a desirable car even today. Then take it to a nearby racetrack with a bunch of high revving Ferrari F430s, and the classic Dino is just going to look dumb on the track. This is the reality with the HD25-1 and the DT1350. The DT1350 was able to resolve every complex bass passages I threw at it, from Prodigy to Muse. Every note was clear and articulate, very clean sounding with zero grain on it. Not so the HD25-1. While the bass remained fairly fast, it just didn’t cut through the notes as sharply as the DT1350 was. Think of the sort of knives sushi chefs use to cut the sashimi, and compare it to the stuff you use in your kitchen. The HD25-1 was really sloppy. Funny, because I’ve never associated the HD25-1 with the word sloppy before, but now it becomes really apparent.

Ferrari Dino 246GT: Beautiful, but of the past.

The current technology. Look at that V8 under the glass top. Simply breathtaking.

The DT1350 Tesla drivers cut through music similar to these William Henry Maestro knives (via http://onemansblog.com)

Gosh, the drivers on the HD25-1 are really getting old.

I was almost ready to publish the article at that point, and title it “Beyerdynamic DT1350: HD25-1 slayer” or something along those lines. But I decided to take more time to listen to them before making my conclusions final.

MORE LISTENING

Now, it seems that great things happen when two different elements work together to produce a championship-winning teamwork. Schumacher and Ferrari in Formula One. US Postal Service Team and Lance Armstrong. Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. You get the idea. Well, that ain’t quite happening with the DT1350’s Tesla driver and the tiny little housing. I can’t help to think that the ability of the DT1350 has been heavily limited by the dimensions of the driver housing which in turn puts severe limits on the acoustics. Seriously, when was the last time you see a good hi-fi headphone in the DT1350 size? And come to think of it, all the $1k headphones seem to come in oversized housings, except for (guess what) the Beyerdynamic T1. I don’t know who thought of a housing dimension that small for the DT1350 (and the T50p), but the marketing department probably has something to do with it.

Schumi and Ferrari: Unstoppable. Via ourlovenotes.com.

 

Many of the issues that I found the DT1350 to have seems to be associated with the housing properties. One is the housing reverb which is in far higher levels than the HD25-1. Second is the fairly unaccurate timbre. Third is the way the soundstage is even more compressed than the HD25-1, and the imaging all over the place, even when the instrument separation is much clearer than the Senn. Fourth is how the bass still lacks some low frequencies even compared to the HD25-1. I also suspect that the Beyer engineer had to find a compromise between producing enough quantities of bass and making a good sounding midrange, which is why the midrange can be an on/off thing depending on the recording you’re listening to.

I guess the HD25-1 is lucky in this instance because without those issues the DT1350 would’ve really slaughtered the HD25-1 in this review. Really, the HD25-1 would’ve deserved it, and I really wish the DT1350 would’ve done that. Those of you who follow my Twitter can also testify that at one point I tweeted about being sick of making recommendations for the HD25-1. And the DT1350 really had what it takes to take on the HD25-1. The Tesla driver is a killer and everytime I take a listen to it, I wish things would’ve been as clear sounding on the HD25-1. But the issues, especially the way the mids are voiced, and how bass doesn’t go as low, makes me sort of 50-50 on which really is the better headphone.

The bass is actually not bad. When I moved from the HD25-1, I can notice that bass punch is a little lesser in impact, but once my ears adjusted to it, I think the bass is good and the PRaT is happening. With the smaller housing, the DT1350 was able to focus the energy of the bass and so the pace and the energy is happening pretty well. Besides, as I’ve mentioned, the Tesla driver had such a clear articulation on the bass and it was nice to hear. But I think the more serious deficiency comes in the area of the midrange. It didn’t have the proper timbre, it didn’t have the proper presence, and the lower to upper mids transition is not as linear as it should be. In short, though the HD25-1’s mids is not the best thing in the world of headphones, it still manages to give a more enjoyable presentation for your average Rock vocalist. You know, but if you happen to be a die-hard fan of Techno or Electronica, I think the mids are fine for those music and the clearer articulation of the DT1350 makes it the more definite choice over the HD25-1. But for Rock, I’m still holding on to my HD25-1.

END WORDS

I don’t think that these headphones, both the HD25-1 and the DT1350 are meant to be technicalities giant. I never expected them to have full-size cans level midrange, timbre, or soundstage. But there is a certain limit that I would tolerate and the DT1350 failed to meet some of that. If I were reviewing a Marshall Major or an Audio Technica SJ-55, I would’ve simply ignored those issues. But Beyerdynamic designed this to be a high quality portable headphone, and so I should be more critical of it, especially since it’s $300.

I think that many of the fault seems to be early in the product design stage, where the marketing guys decided that they wanted to make a high quality, compact, portable headphone with stylish designs. I think they may have set the housing size a little too small, hence putting all these limitations on the acoustics of the housing. Had they set the housing to be a little bigger like the HD25-1, it would’ve been a sure win for the Beyer.

I do think, however, that the DT1350 would be a superb headphone for Techno and Electronica. The bass is tight and the pace is right. The articulation is superb and everything sounds crystal clear without being harsh or dry. I don’t think vocal is that critical in Techno or Electronica, and so you can sort of overlook the midrange issues. The fact that I don’t recommend it for Rock, Acoustics, Indie, Classical, Hip Hop may seem limiting, but if you think about it, the younger age group tend to listen to a lot of Techno and Electronica, and so that’s a big percentage of the market. And the DT1350 is the headphone that I would recommend to those crowd. But a wide-genre bandwith headphone the DT1350 is not. It’s not bad, and it can play Rock and Pop tunes pretty good, but it’s not going to be that good for it. Timbre issues also make it un-ideal for Classical and Jazz. So, there you go.

It was a strong attack from Beyer, but I think the HD25-1 still has a few years left in its lifecycle.

 

The Beyerdynamic DT1350 and the T50p

The DT1350 reviewed here is supposed to be an improved, professional variant of the T50p, which is based on the same housing design and also fitted with a Tesla driver. When I received the T50p, I was very enthusiastic about it, as you can tell from the tone of this article. But after spending more time with the T50p, I finally concluded that it had many issues in the sound and that I ended up not being too enthusiastic about in when I did the Closed Cans Shootout.

 

 

 

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196 Comments

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Jeffrey

    Thanks for the review. I’ve been looking at this headphone for a while, and you answered most of the questions I had.

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      You’re welcome. Good to hear that.

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Donunus

    Whats with you and that hd25 Mike? I don’t get it LOL I find that headphone harsh and lacking in extension. Does it really improve that much after burn in? I guess this is where we also differed in preferences when comparing the v-jays and the px100-II 🙂

    Anyways, is it safe to say that the shure srh940 can slaughter the beyer 1350 in almost every aspect of the sound?

    • Reply August 10, 2011

      James McProgger

      He’s not alone, we are many!

      • Reply August 10, 2011

        Donunus

        hehehe sorry about that 🙂 I guess when we speak of sound I know its all personal. I just wanted to poke some lighthearted fun at Mike and his hd25 lovefest 🙂

        • Reply August 11, 2011

          Anonymous

          There are more of us than you are, Donunus. 😉

          • Reply August 11, 2011

            Donunus

            I’ll still take hd600s over hd25s anyday for any genre hehehe.  I never really was the type of guy that would sacrifice sound over convenience.

            • Reply August 11, 2011

              Anonymous

              You Senn fanboy.

              Obviously the HD600 is a class up from the HD25. What’s the matter with you?! 😉

      • Reply August 10, 2011

        Donunus

        hehehe sorry about that 🙂 I guess when we speak of sound I know its all personal. I just wanted to poke some lighthearted fun at Mike and his hd25 lovefest 🙂

      • Reply August 11, 2011

        Anonymous

        We can all ignore Donunus’ comments now. 😉

        Yep. You’re welcome, James.

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      You baby your ears too much man.. that’s why. Screw refinement and extension.

      On another topic, yes the Shure would slaughter the Beyer in almost every aspect of technicalities. But I’d still take the DT1350 over the Shure for music listening. Yes.

      • Reply August 22, 2011

        JamesC

        Hello. I was expecting srh940 to be limited to acoustic/jazz type stuff but find them very musically satisfying for a very wide range (via Graham Slee Ultra Linear) vs. hd25-1, hd250, hd650, dt150, rs-1, k701, dt48. What is it about dt1350 that you find more satisfying musically? Best. James C.

        • Reply August 22, 2011

          Anonymous

          Hi James,
          I think the SRH940 is too dry for music listening, as one guy wrote just earlier today. Technically it is better than the DT1350, but I find the DT1350 still a better headphone for music listening.

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    James McProgger

    I didnt expect a review on this one so soon.

    I still prefer the HD25 for metal, all kinds of metal music, for some reason I keep feeling DT1350 sounds off, specially in the guitars, plus I like my metal with punchier bass. but i have over punched like the sony’s XB series. HD25 is thin in bass but DT1350 is even more. a shame, because being so fats and resolving, it’d be aweosme for fast tech prog metal! but the weird mids and guitars off make it awkward sometimes for me.

    I bought the DT1350 to replace the HD25 but got a different flavor of good. plus I have serious problems with the fitting of the little beyer, that and its very picky with source, amp, positioning of the cups and still cant wear them over one hour! and sometimes I still find myself adjusting the fitting after a few minutes, is like a IEM … still is a great headphone, look and feel is almost sexual 😀 and fairly more portable than the HD25. Is an intense love/hate relationship.

    Im happy with it. but I still use the HD25 a lot.

    very nice review as usual and great photos!

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      “I didn’t expect a review on this one so soon.” Are you being sarcastic there, James? 😉 I thought I’m super-late to the DT1350 game.

      Guitar, yes the DT1350 is off.
      Punchier bass — check.

      I think you and I stand in similar grounds regarding the DT1350 and HD25-1.

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Anonymous

    I have been looking for a HD25-1 II type headphone or alternative and while the DT1350 sounds great in your review, it’s at a 50% price premium. That’s huge.

    • Reply August 10, 2011

      James McProgger

      street price is around 250$, I got mine for 260$

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      Well… it is much newer both in driver technology and housing design. I really would’ve liked the DT1350 to do better in the mids, cause then I can ditch the HD25-1 for good.

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Anonymous

    Edit: Looks like the T50p is also equally expensive ($300)

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Bikermanlax

    I just got a pair of these and listened to various orchestral tunes last night and loved the sound from top to bottom.  Solo piano sounded good too.  Some jazz pieces, not so much.  No vocals.  Paired with a HiFi 601 and HeadRoom Micro amp.

    As always, thanks for the great reviews.

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      You’re welcome, Biker.

      Thanks for agreeing to disagree. 😉

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Maya

    With what amp did your try them ?

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      Hi Maya,
      I think the Burson HA-160D, ALO’s continental, DAcport, Audinst, Fostex HP-A3, Fostex HP-P1, Hifiman DAPs, the Graham Slee Amps, and a few other amps during the period of this review. Sorry for missing out that information on the review. I’m getting lazy to type out the details. 🙁

  • Reply August 10, 2011

    Benedict Brown

    On build quality:
    Take both sets of headphones. Throw them both at a brick wall as hard as you can. Check for damage. Repeat a further five times.

    I’m pretty certain that only the HD 25-1 would still be fully intact and not bent or dented.

    Really, it seems to me that people often lose sight of the fact that the HD 25 series is not designed for audiophiles, but solely around professional use. Hence the no-nonsense appearance and build along with the sound and form factor. Saying the DT1350 is an HD 25-1 killer is nonsensical, since the 1350 probably won’t be seeing much use in the professional music scene – it’s a flashy, pretty headphone designed for audiophiles and voiced as such. That’s not to say anything bad about the 1350 as a headphone, but there’s no way it’s going to touch the HD 25-1 as a headphone for recording, mixing, monitoring etcetera.
    For years now everyone’s kept saying that X new headphone ‘wipes the floor with the HD 600,’ yet it seems to me that people will always regard the HD 600 as an important benchmark headphone, since it does so much right and so little wrong. The same is true for the HD 25-1; though headphones may come along in similar price ranges that can beat it some or all aspects, it’s unlikely that any will manage to displace it as the benchmark for its form factor.

    And FYI, I’d take a classic Ferarri over a modern one any day. I’d rather have a beautiful antique automobile than a technically perfect but soulless sports car.

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Anonymous

      Mr Benedict,
      I think you and I share so much similarities on the issues you touched on. Yes on the HD25-1, and yes on the design, and yes on the build quality.
      Now the classic Ferraris are indeed beautiful and I’ll take them over a modern one for personal collection. But on the track, really there is no contest. 😉

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Keith Wood

    I just paid $22.85 for an iPad 264GB and my girlfriend loves her Panasonic Lumix GF 1 Camera that we got for $38.76 there arriving tomorrow by UPS. I will never pay such expensive retail prices in stores again. Especially when I also sold a 40 inch LED TV to my boss for $674 which only cost me $62.81 to buy. Here is the website we use to get it all from, CentHub.com

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Eric_C

    Can’t say I really agree with you this time, Mike. I don’t think the HD 25-1 is the last word in resolution, but it is an accurate headphone that’s very good for what it was designed to do: monitor. Scratch ‘n shock proof, isolating, accurate sounding–not best-in-class of any field, but certainly best compromise.

    I tried the DT1350 once. It’s definitely good too, but I didn’t like the tone…dunno, sounded a bit off to me. More comfy than the HD 25-1 though!

    One final point: may I say, respectfully, that it’s a bit of a disservice to say the tech of the HD 25-1 is out of date. It’s old, but for the most part the science behind dynamic drivers hasn’t needed to change anyways?
    –Eric.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      I actually agree with what you said. The HD25-1: not the best in resolution, but pretty accurate. Still the DT1350 was able to outresolve and also articulate much better than the HD25-1. The tone, yes it is a bit off. And yes it is more comfy than the HD25-1.

      Dynamic drivers, yes the principles are the same. But take a look at internal combustion engines in cars made in the 70s and compare it with the stuff you have today and you know what I mean. Same principles, but they get better and better at executing it.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    joe

    Mike..thanks for the great review, you’ve brought up my curiosity on these cans again..but there are a couple of things that i found ” different” from your review.. first, you said that the beyers do not go as low as the senns, but by looking at the graphs from innerfidelity, the beyer certainly have much better bass extension than the senns..

    also, could you explain more about “the imaging is all over the place”?? because from others impressions, it seems to me that the beyer actually have better imaging and soundstage than the  hd-25..

    thanks mike, i’m not really questioning your review.. we all hear different anyway, i’m just being  curious on several of the aspect of your opinion here.. oh, btw i like the knife and car analogy, i think it makes the review more interesting, unlike other boring reviews with the technicality mumbo jumbo, haha..

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      There are certain things that doesn’t always translate well from graph to ear.. but care to share the graphs here and let me take a look?

      The Beyer has clearer instrument separation and blacker background, but the soundstage image is not accurate.

      You’re welcome, Joe. 🙂

      • Reply August 12, 2011

        joe

        • Reply August 13, 2011

          Daniel

          The measurements should only be used as references. Microphones may register flat frequency responses, but it doesn’t mean that it’s truly flat. Mics are engineered products and have flaws too. Moreover, when you add in general preferences, which may resemble a FR that isn’t flat and ever changing, FR measurements deviate further from what people actually perceive.

          http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audio-technica-ath-m50-page-2Here, Tyll himself said that FR graphs for the M50 suggested a mid centric sound but listening tests proved otherwise. I myself found the mids a little recessed in comparison to the lows and highs too and was surprised by the FR measurements.

          I guess what seems to be balanced to me is somewhat on the more mid-centric side, as compared to the referenced microphone’s registration.

          So, why make FR measurements then, right? I personally use such graphs as a means to check on tolerances. If you’ve seen plenty of such graphs you’ll realize there’re certain types of graph shapes that are usually OK. If you measure something radically different, it’s either interesting or just crap.

        • Reply August 13, 2011

          Anonymous

          Thanks Joe

        • Reply August 13, 2011

          Anonymous

          Looking at the chart now. That is really weird. The HD25-1 is so rolled off on the bass. I mean, it’s never particularly good with low bass, but compared to the Beyer DT1350 I think the HD25-1 goes deeper.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Maya

    I quite disagree with you Mike on certain points. First, I really have a hard time to understand how you can say the DT 1350 has less bass extension than the HD-25. Less impact ? For sure. But extension ? Unlikely. I don’t like to bring up graphs everywhere, but there is such a difference between the HD-25-1-II and the DT 1350 in Tyll Hertsen’s measurements that the gap is wide enough not to be attrributed to placement error or other reasons. Also, I was quite surprised when you wrote that soundstage is more compressed and imaging all over the place. Actually, the DT 1350 is the first portable headphone I somewhat enjoy with classical music, because of what I perceive as good imaging.
    On the other hand your comment about midrange and tonality is perfectly in line with my experience. But I don’t conclude out of that that the DT 1350 isn’t good for jazz – in fact, I find them quite terrific for that genre and certainly better than most other portable headphones – which happen to be flawed as well in the midrange anyway (including the HD-25 IMHO). All in all I still prefer the HD-25 for dirty, badly recorded rock or metal (mostly because of the stronger bass impact and PRAT factor, which I find a touch better with the Sennheiser), but for any other genre I don’t see how they can compete with the DT 1350 as far as sound quality goes.I actually have both at my disposal right now, and used them on an iPhone, HM 601, Macbook Pro. Not the greatest stuff I admit, but if one headphonespair of  should be penalized and at a disadvantage here, it’s the DT 1350 (which I think improves more with amping than the HD-25). I’ll receive a TTVJ Slim next week, but I doubt I’ll change my mind.

    Now, as far as build quality goes, despite the fact that the Beyer uses noble materials, I find the assembly of those materials subpar and unprecise. One example : one of the sliding aluminium parts (the ones which permit to adjust the size of the headband) wasn’t angled at the same angle as the other one. It resulted in increased pressure on one side versus the other – and sound quality suffered a little. I had to manually adjust it myself to get a symmetrical fit. And at 270 euros, I find that difficult to swallow.

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Maya

      I should also have mentioned that I have a bias for electrostatic headphones. As they say, when you’re in love with electrostats, nothing else will do. As the DT 1350 has without any trace of doubt a sound that’s closer to electrostats than the HD-25 (obviously, it isn’t one, so it does not sound like one, it just is closer to their sound than the latter), I’m naturally leaning towards the Beyer. That’s probably my most preeminent bias, so I think I had to mention it.

      • Reply August 12, 2011

        Anonymous

        Hi Maya,
        I agree with you there. The blacker background, the clearer separation sounds closer to stats. But as far as I know, no electrostat system has a precise soundstage imaging. The DT1350 is in a way like that, though it is dynamic driver. I don’t think it’s the fault of the driver though, as the Beyer line up has always have good accuracy on the imaging, including the T1 flagship.

        • Reply August 12, 2011

          Maya

          Haven’t used an electrostat system long enough to concur with you or not. But especially in comparison to the HD-25, I really can’t agree with you on the DT 1350 here. In absolute terms, its imaging isn’t good at all (it’s a closed portable supra-aural after all), but in relative terms I find it quite a lot better than the HD-25 for imaging. I listen to quite a lot of classical – and while it was terrible on the HD-25 (flat and two-dimensional, only a left/right kind of imaging), it isn’t nearly as bad with the Beyers.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      Thanks for sharing your comments, Maya.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    carl

    There’s a local cult of HD25 owners here in Manila and they will eat you alive dononus!

    I agree there is someting amiss about the DT1350 timbre, which made me decide not to get one. And maybe I didn’t quite got a good fit when I tried it as I still find the HD25 bass better overall, punch, quantity and extension.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      If I may add,
      I think ultimately time will decide how successful of a headphone the DT1350 is. The HD25-1 has been proven to be a solid recommendation for years now, while the DT1350 is still fairly recent.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    louiscipher

    this is what i’m waiting for. so for rock/metal/better energy and PRaT hd25-1  is still better?
    from hm601/602 HO which is better? dt1350 or hd25-1?

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Thiebault Labeille

      I think that out of the HM 601/602, the DT 1350 feels underamped (lacks body, substance), while the HD 25 fairs better. Under this ccondition, I’d take the HD 25 if PRAT is your main concern. Personal opinion though.

      • Reply August 12, 2011

        Anonymous

        Thanks, Thiebault.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      I think both headphones would do well with the HM601/602. They’re not particularly difficult to drive.
      Which is better? Depends more on the music and recording — like what I said in the review.

      • Reply August 13, 2011

        louiscipher

        for rock/metal of course. it’s still hd25 i guess

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Malcuso

    Great review. I’ve been using these phones for a few weeks now and also noticed the lack of sound stage and soft base. Any recomendations on a portable amp to off set some of these short commings? I’ve been using a Fii 7 to get started, but ready to move up. Really interested in take on ALO Continetal and Fostex ph-p1.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      I think the ALO Continental. The Fostex is great but not so much with bass.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Swbf2cheater

    I think people should also include the Phiaton PS320 into the mix if they are interested in buying something like these models. I found it to be an excellent performer and was more comfortable than both the sennheiser and the beyer.  

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      I’ve listened to a few Phiatons perhaps early last year.. they were a little smooth and laid back, weren’t they?

      I remembered listening to the one with Red/Carbon fiber finish.

  • Reply August 11, 2011

    Dave.

    Beyerdynamic DT1350
     
    Build: Cheaper and flimsier than the T50s—they were much easier to reassemble.
    Damping pad fitted to 1350s , to compensate for thinner housing.
     
    Wiring: The pictures speak for themselves.
    Different wire than the T50s, but still 3 (Common Ground). instead of 4 conductors.
     
    One sided cable quite bad enough—look at how much extra wire is in the way of one side as opposed to the other. But worse still there is a small circuit board glued inside the right housing, to terminate the three wires.
    So you have the left drive unit with an extra 55cm of cable (yes that’s 36.6% extra), and the right housing has a circuit board glued to it, which decreases the volume of the “Speaker”, and changes the resonant properties of the housing.
    In other words two different “experiences” for each ear.
     
    At the kind of prices manufacturers charge us why oh why do we, as consumers, put up with this? There is no excuse!! This is a reluctant posting but I do hope it goes some way towards an explanation of the thoughts, questions and ideas that have been and will be posted. Not everyone has the skills required or indeed the nerve to open up their expensive headphones and take a look.
     
    P.S. The T50s’  out of the box sounded O.K. ish  but after a similar rewire now sound very, very good, a different level that everyone comments on and well worth the small effort.
    Shame we have to do this for ourselves.
     

    • Reply August 11, 2011

      Maya

      Did you actually experience two different “experiences” from each cup ? I’m doubtful the asymmetrical build of the Beyer has such an extend on sound quality (not saying it does not have any, but I doubt that is is massive enough to constitute a real substantial difference between the right and left ear). Measurements from Tyll Hertsen don’t seem to ring any alarm about this.

      On the other hand I agree with you that the build of the Beyer is a lot of bling but not very careful or serious.

      • Reply August 12, 2011

        Dave.

        The simple, short answer is yes at times but the sound quality/difference was more down to a combination of things. As I said, the rewire gives a far better and balanced result. Perhaps this is more ‘subjective’ than I’d care to admit and I still prefer the T50s (also rewired) overall for most things. I do not expect others to agree with me on this though.
        Anyway,it’s all good fun apart from cost and is also a learning process.

    • Reply August 13, 2011

      Anonymous

      Thanks for posting the photos, Dave.

  • Reply August 12, 2011

    Eskimoo

    hi, nice review

    dt1350 is typical beyerdynamic sound signature that focus on trebles and details. some ears wont get accustomed to. on other hand, the built quality very top-grade, metalband compared to heavy-duty plastic on HD25-1. 

    the question is where is the bass anyway? 

    • Reply August 13, 2011

      Anonymous

      No actually it’s quite different than a typical Beyer. Good bass body and not so trebly. The clarity is achieved from a good articulation, separation and black background.

      Still missing on the midrange though.

      • Reply August 15, 2011

        Eskimoo

        some electronica (trance) do have vocals, try the 
        Tiesto’s In The Dark  
        Armin’s  Light between us
        Andain’s Everything from me
        In and Out of Love
        so the missing-midrange will make the music become ‘uncomplete’ 

        this headphone really “beyer’s unique” with tesla tech. 

         check this feedbacks http://tinyurl.com/3lomd9h

        • Reply August 15, 2011

          Anonymous

          Yes, I realize that.. but vocals in electronica tend to be presented differently in the recording, if you know what I mean. I don’t think they fall in line with what people typically mean when talking about vocal quality.

  • Reply August 12, 2011

    D_t_h_o_r_n

    If you listen to the Beyerdynamic DTX-300p, a very lightweight and cheap ($50 USD) headphone that’s somewhat light in sound as well, you can see a pattern for a near-perfect sound for a larger headphone like the DT-1350. But instead of following the pattern of the DTX-300p (excellent midrange and rolled-off lows and highs), they followed the pattern of the T50p and they managed to make the midrange hollow and “dry”, with a too-much depressed upper mid/lower highs around 4 to 7 khz. Why they did this in my opinion is because of a fundamental problem in high fidelity today – we are not differentiating between consumer hi-fi headphones that at least pay a little more than lip service to the notion of hi-fi and neutrality, and the specialty headphones such as the “big bass” and “extreme detail” models frequently mentioned.

    The Beyer DT-48E, a specialty headphone if there ever was such a thing, sounds quite natural and musically neutral compared to the DT-1350, yet one major reviewer described the DT-48E’s sound as “wretched” compared to the exciting sound of the DT-1350. So I think we have separate communities evolving here – one dedicated to natural, uncolored, neutral sound that tries to be high fidelity, and the other dedicated to “fun”, with no pretentions to high fidelity. While this sounds (heh) like a non-issue, i.e. let the market and consumers decide with their wallets, in reality when standards are thrown out the window or are declared by experts to no longer apply, the entire industry and music-loving consumers will suffer in many ways.

    • Reply August 12, 2011

      James McProgger

      Interesting theory, Dthorn, In my opinion portables should be about fun and non tiring sound. but I guess beyer designed this to be “studio headphone” so I think they tunned it to be that way.

    • Reply August 13, 2011

      Anonymous

      Good observation there.

    • Reply August 13, 2011

      Maya

      Yeah. Absolutely. And you’re preaching for the right side, obviously. Seriously, this is ridiculous. I highly doubt somebody finding the LCD-2 “natural and neutral” will find the DT 48 “natural and neutral” as well, as they’re very different. And yet,  I’ve heard that to describe them both by different people. Does this mean that the LCD-2 side is wrong and doesn’t care about Hifi ?
      Just look at those graphs of the DT-48 :
      http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT48E120Ohm.pdf
      Does this look to you as any more Hifi than the DT 1350 ? As I don’t believe graphs should be overinterpreted, I won’t say that it is less accurate than the DT 1350 (though it surely looks like somebody with anough knowledge of graphs could say that), but don’t tell me it is any more Hifi than the DT 1350. Just a different interpretation of what a good sounding headphone should be, at best.
      PS : BTW, when you look at this, it has an even bigger deppression in the upper mids than the DT 1350.

      • Reply August 13, 2011

        Maya

        • Reply August 15, 2011

          eugenius

          Still has the 8khz spike

          • Reply August 16, 2011

            Maya

            Agreed, I think none of them both is even remotely neutral, but I find it wrong to say that relatively speaking, the DT 48 is more neutral than the DT 1350. I find the reverse to be truer.

  • Reply August 12, 2011

    Sam Robinson

    Fantastic review as always, Mike. Any word on whether or not you will be reviewing the Fischer FA-003s in the near future?

    • Reply August 13, 2011

      Anonymous

      No schedule for the Fischer, Sam.. They’re very difficult to get from where I live.

      • Reply August 13, 2011

        Sam Robinson

        Alright, thanks!

        • Reply August 15, 2011

          Anonymous

          Yes, not saying I am never going to review them, because they are very interesting headphones.. but I just haven’t got an idea when I’ll be able to review them. 

  • Reply August 13, 2011

    Voracious

    Too much waffling in this review for me. I’ve enjoyed most of your others that I’ve read but you kept going back and forth here, leaving me more confused than informed. Now, this only makes me question many of your other reviews.

    • Reply August 14, 2011

      Dave.

      Hi,
      I think most reviews I read are full of waffle, it’s hard to avoid when so much subjectivity is involved. Specs are specs but opinions are just that, an opinion. For what it’s worth I find the reviews here are the best by far, informative certainly. Good reading for sure and far less bickering than other sites. I take my hat off to Mike, he’s got one hell of a job here and he does it verywell. Seems to maintain a very good balance too. I think you may be a little too harsh. In fact your comment is just an opinion and of course you are entitled to that.

      • Reply August 15, 2011

        Anonymous

        Thanks, Dave.

    • Reply August 15, 2011

      Anonymous

      I see what you’re saying. I think the review sort of goes from talking about the HD25-1, then DT1350, back HD25-1, then DT1350, and so on. So yes that can be a little bit confusing.

  • Reply August 15, 2011

    Dave.

    On a positive note……….I just love this site. I consider myself lucky to have discovered somewhere I can simply read and post as a GUEST, no need to join up and no password required !! A major bonus for me, I have that many passwords these days it’s become a  real ball- ache. If I had to sign up and enter a password I’d become a missing fundamental!

    • Reply August 16, 2011

      Anonymous

      Thanks, Dave.

      I agree with the pain of having multiple passwords too.

  • Reply August 15, 2011

    eugenius

    The HD25-1 is a reference point – I don’t think it will ever be changed much.

    It would be like Beyer releasing a DT-49 because the DT48 is too old. 🙂

  • Reply August 15, 2011

    Chevon James

    i took what you said yesterday into consideration about my rock music needs and now ive narrowed my wishlist to

    grado sr325 
    25 hd 1

    ive read all over that the grado line is best for rock and was wondering if the s5hd 1’s can compete due to their outdated tech

    another thing, i have alot of trailer music “orchastra” from “two steps from hell”  and i was wondering if that was the type of music my recently purchased 
    sennheiser hd598’s should be used for? or should i return them?
     

  • Reply August 17, 2011

    Dave.

    Firstly, thank you Chevon for introducing me to Two Steps From Hell. At 62 I was very tempted to simply dismiss it as, for want of a better expression’ ‘teen trash’!  I was wrong and loved it.
    I have to ask a question or two here though.

    1. What is the most popular file format you guys use ?

    2. If the answer to question 1 is mp3 or AAC then I fail to understand the extrodinary lengths folk go to and the cost involved in the pursuit of sound excellence.

    3. To me a portable rig is simply a stand alone player with headphones. I can’t see any point in buying a player, adding a DAC and then a head amp. Why not just buy a decent player in the first place?

    4. How can anyone who constantly listens to, or dare I say reviews, such a prolific amount of audio equipment come to a genuine and reliable conclusion. The human ear/brain needs ‘time’ to settle down between critical listening sessions.

    Never forget that the equipment we use does not actually give us quite what we think it does but is very good at making us think that it does. Who really believes than IEMs can deliver 20hz ??  Have a good read up on Fundamentals (Wikipedia).

    It is quite natural, I think, for anyone who spends good money on a fancy bit of kit to believe it sounds great. After all, it must do, It’s the latest and it looks stunning too. Rubbish! Let YOUR ears be the judge, not media hype or peer pressure.

    • Reply August 18, 2011

      Anonymous

      Good questions there Dave.

      • Reply August 18, 2011

        Dave.

        Thanks for the answers. Not sure I agree with you entirely but that’s O.K. I think that in say the USA, a nation of Air travel and long haul bus trips, larger rigs are more acceptable. Not the case here in the U.K. I also use WAV and only WAV but have often thought some of my live streaming recordings from 320kbps mp3 do sound pretty good, lacking only in ‘depth’? Does seem a bit hit and miss though and perhaps that is down to software? I use SoundTap for recording which gives me WAV files with no extra conversion needed.
        As a driver and having experienced track racing and many high performance cars I have to  disagree with your comparrison to listening to music. Anyway, as you say, a very complex area and one that I continue to study. Rare that I allow any of this to impact on my listening pleasure though.
        Thanks again.

        • Reply August 18, 2011

          Anonymous

          Thanks, Dave.

          • Reply October 25, 2011

            Benjamin Goulart

            I hear massive amounts of artifacts on 320kbps compared to lossless or wav going from Emu 0204, to good headphone amp (E7 or E6 or Emu’s own jack for high ohm phones), to Etymotic ER4S, KRK 6400, modded Sennheiser HD25, and Beyerdynamic DT1350.  It’s not even subtle.  MP3s all sound harsh and tizzy and lacking refinement by comparision.  MP3 doesn’t sound like music and has no delicacy.  It sounds fake, like a bad recording.  An exception is Armin’s State of Trance compilation CD/wav files that have generational loss to begin with (because they are recordings of processed or mixed sound) and don’t sound that much better than MP3 to begin with.  But that’s not a knock on lossless and wav, just on the sound of his CDs.  I suggest if you cannot hear the difference, then your gear sucks… or you’ve messed up your ears… or maybe you have a tendency to listen too loud and are introducing too much THD from your ears/brain being overloaded.  It further disturbs me that some of the DJing gear out there can ONLY play MP3s.  Wow.  Awful.  If the club’s sound can’t allow you to differentiate between them, don’t go to the club.

            • Reply October 25, 2011

              Dave.

              I agree with you here but have you posted this on the correct thread? I have tried hard to make the point – it all starts with quality files! I take a lot of s**t on some forums for plugging Wav.

            • Reply October 25, 2011

              Anonymous

              Very good post, Benjamin. But seriously I don’t think MP3s are that bad if you stay within the 256kbps and 320kbps range. 

              Most of the so-called MP3s distortions are very hard to pick up at the 256kbps and 320kbps range and most people aren’t going to be able to tell the difference in a blind test, me included. 

    • Reply August 18, 2011

      Anonymous

      1. A lot of people like to use FLAC since it is the open format. I use WAV because I do reviews.
      2. Actually not quite like that, the recording quality is far more important. High quality recording in 320kbps mp3 is always going to be better than pop/mainstream recording even in 24/96. Actually for most people 320kbps is more than enough as there is almost no artifacts audible with 320kbps.
      3. Yes, depends on how you use the rig, I suppose. If you’re walking and doing exercise then a small DAP with an IEM is good. If you’re just sitting down on a train or a plane trip, then bigger rigs are fine.
      4. I think you’re underestimating the capacity of the human senses and the brain. Take a pro race car driver, for instance. In a given weekend, he/she may be testing different set ups on the car, adjusting suspension angles, lengths, stiffness settings, tire pressures — all these variables and yet he/she would still be able to say which is the best set up for that particular circuit.

      If we want to really discuss the science between hearing, equipments, what the brain really perceives, that would take far more than one PhD degree. So I think what’s really happening behind the scenes are far to complex to be discussed in internet discussion rooms. I don’t even think that a full length college text book can be written to explain all those different aspects. For me, I’d rather go back and listen to the gears and have a good time.

  • Reply August 31, 2011

    JLiew

    Hi Mike,

    First of all, I love your reviews. Most detail and informative. (;

    Here’s my question. I just bought my HD25-1 not long ago, and I’m s quite satisfied with them. I’m more into electro house, dubstep and RnB now. Do you think DT1350 performs better than my current one for those genres? Should I replace my HD25-1 with some other headphones like M50? Thanks.

    Regards

    • Reply September 1, 2011

      Anonymous

      Thanks. 🙂

      I think you should give the DT1350 at try. It’s definitely more recommended than the M-50 for the stuff that you listen to. The M-50’s bass is slower and won’t be able to maintain the pace.

      • Reply September 1, 2011

        JLiew

        So you mean that HD25-1’s bass is not as good as the DT1350’s and I should quit using my HD25-1? I listen to pop rock too by the way.

        One quick question, which in-ear earphones are good for those genres? Could you give me 2-3 recommendations? Thanks a lot. (;

  • Reply September 10, 2011

    Reticuli

    Clearly you like mid-bass bumps and are
    misinterpreting it as low bass on the HD25, because the DT1350 measures ruler
    flat in the lows and the HD25 definitely does not reach low… on any test run
    by anyone. Not terrible extension, but not as deep as would be preferable.
    Also, unless you or someone else has tried changing the driver housing, it is
    completely impossible to differentiate what is the driver and what is the
    housing causing the sonic character.  Interesting review, though.

    • Reply September 12, 2011

      Anonymous

      I was thinking about this because I still listen to both the HD25-1 and the DT1350 going back and forth.

      Now I know what low bass is, but what I’m wondering is if the dummy head that Tyll uses have the same acoustic properties as the human skin (and the flesh beneath it) because that’s what form the acoustic chamber in a headphone system.

  • Reply September 16, 2011

    Wyffels

    Hi Mike,

    Have you tried the Beyerdynamic t 70p? Thoughts on it? Compared to M-50 sound? I have been finding most Beyerdynamics have weak bass reproduction, so I am interested in knowing if this is any better. Thanks!

    • Reply September 17, 2011

      Anonymous

      Nah I haven’t had the chance to listen to the T70p

  • Reply September 19, 2011

    Anonymous

     Beyerdynamic sucks because they were never ever available in our country.  Buying online makes them 30% expensive.

    • Reply September 19, 2011

      James McProgger

      Give it time, it is still relativelly new.

    • Reply September 19, 2011

      Anonymous

      Really? That’s quite surprising. Are you talking about all Beyer line up or just the DT1350?

      • Reply September 19, 2011

        Anonymous

        All of Beyerdynamic line.   Also all AKG and Shure(headphones) are not present either.

        • Reply September 19, 2011

          Anonymous

          Oh well.

          You got Sennheiser over there?

          • Reply September 19, 2011

            Anonymous

            Yes, we have.

            • Reply September 20, 2011

              Anonymous

              Sennheiser seems to have the most consistent distribution network especially on non-major countries like the US.
              Over here it’s kind of hard to get Beyerdynamics, AKG and Audio Technica stuff whereas Sennheiser products are sold in many2 retailers.

  • Reply September 29, 2011

    Sperandeo

    I own a pair of Audeze LCD 2 and there are many situations where I can’t wear an open headphone. The DT1350 works perfectly as my goto closed headphone and for the size and price the DT1350 kicks ass..

    • Reply September 29, 2011

      Anonymous

      Yes and somehow I can see how an LCD-2 userD would absolutely fit in with the DT1350.

  • Reply October 18, 2011

    Xavier Leong

    Finally, a contender 😀

  • Reply November 3, 2011

    justint

    Hi Mike,
    Umm, is the Sennheiser MX-980 earbud better for casual music listening than DT-1350?
    I can’t decide between the two for my direct-portable companion..

    Thanks.

    • Reply November 3, 2011

      Kat

      Hi,
      One is an IEM the other full size. What do mean exactly by casual listening? At home or out and about? Besides, only you can decide in the end. IEMs’ performance can change dramactically simply by changing the oem supplied buds for comply. The Denon c700s’ for example sounded very ‘thin’ and lacking with the original buds but with comply buds…. wow, a different IEM altogether.

      • Reply November 3, 2011

        justint

        Thanks for the reply, Kat..
        Umm, I know that one is earbud and one is portable-sized headphone, and they are different..
        But I never heard both, so I don’t know how different will they compare each other..
        I still don’t have any plan to change the stock accessories.

        I mean, I’m not going for critical listening. Mainly I will use them out when I’m waiting something on the go or traveling, and when I want to enjoy my music on my bed before sleeping, but still give me great pleasure when listening to my iTouch 4 directly..
        I listen mainly to Pop, Vocal, Jazz, Acoustics, Techno, Electronica, Vocal, Rock, and Contemporary Classical.

        IMHO, my current set of MX880 is lack in midrange and treble clarity though the bass is quite impactful, and fit is quite good (despite that long volume control).
        And the ATH-M50, in addition that it’s quite weird to wear it outside, sometimes its slightly recessed midrange and slow PRaT hindered the enjoyment in fast-paced musics.

        If I want a step up, or maybe portable set on the go that min. have the SQ of ATH-M50, which is from the MX-980 or DT-1350 will serve me better (go unamped)?
        or maybe there’s another solution..
        (btw, I’m not listening to in-ear and Sony MDR-Z1000 is hard to get and will be extremely pricey in Indonesia)
         

        Sorry for my long and maybe confusing question..
        Thanks.

        • Reply November 3, 2011

          kat / Dave

          No worries.
          Mike will no doubt give you some advice here but I’d go for the DT-1350s as a good all rounder. Re-wired the 1350s’ will perform at a much higher level and the rewire is cheap and easy to do. I posted some photos on the rewire some time ago but can’t seem to find them here. If you give me an email address I’ll mail them to you. Or, you can contact me at katana@ntlworld.com or http://www.colorflyowners.com

          • Reply November 4, 2011

            justint

            Yeah, I’ll wait for Mike’s advice, too..
            Ah, I appreciate it, maybe when it’s possible and my conclusion final, I’ll try your rewiring mod.
            you can send those photos to blazer_189@yahoo.com

            Thanks, Kat.

        • Reply November 4, 2011

          Dave

          Just had a thought, the  Sennheiser MX-980 have an in-line volume control (I think) and if that’s the case I’d avoid them. Besides, I’ve heard they are not that good for the price. You could have a look at the Denon c700s’ which with ‘comply’ buds sound great and you can find them for about £120. 

          • Reply November 4, 2011

            justint

            Just curious beside ergonomics issue, what is the negative effect of VC?
            Hmm, I don’t know if Jaben Indo has the c700 or the comply buds..
            Yeah, they’re quite pricey for earbud, but I don’t wear IEM and worry about Yuin’s build quality, so I think MX980 is my only high-end earbud solution..
            Thanks.

          • Reply November 5, 2011

            Dave.

            Nothing to do with ergonomics. The best advice I have ever been given is ‘keep it simple’ and I apply this to all my hi fi gear. My pre/power amp has no balance, bass or treble, only gain. My speakers are full range single drivers, so no x-overs. The mere fact that the MX980 has an in-line volume will degrade the audio signal IMHO. In any case, you say you don’t use/like IEMs’ and that’s O.K. The c700s’ though are very good value for the price and to be fair, they do out-perform some of my other more expensive IEMs.
            We all have our likes and dislikes and if the MX980 is your preferred choice that’s fine but I’d suggest you listen to a set first if possible. You will pay a lot more for the  DT-1350s  but I still would go for these over the MX980 if you can afford them. Not so easy to carry about though! It’s difficult deciding where to spend hard earned cash these days – so much (confusing) choice 🙂

          • Reply November 5, 2011

            justint

            Okay, Dave.. Thanks for your advice and information.. I really appreciate it.

  • Reply December 6, 2011

    StephenM

    Mike
    For “genuinely portable” headphones, apart from this DT1350 and HD25, I can think of B&W’s P5.

    I own P5 but not so satisfied with it.  I find it extremely difficult to identify any possible candidates, with good sound quality, in the market.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks

    • Reply December 6, 2011

      Mike

      Hi Stephen,
      I understand that you are trying to communicate that you are not satisfied with the P5. So what are you asking here?

      • Reply December 6, 2011

        StephenM

        Hi Mike
        I am looking for a replacement for P5, as its sound quality is not that satisfactory. 

        I need some small-sized headphone (not IEM), something like P5 and DT1350.

        Any suggestions other than DT1350 / HD25 / T50p?

        • Reply December 6, 2011

          Mike

          Did you feel the P5 to lack treble? Too warm?

          • Reply December 6, 2011

            StephenM

            Something like this.  A thick layer of music, not bright enough (I am not talking about very Hi-Fi sound).

            I have a Denon A100, which sounds more comfortable to listen to.

            When I shift from P5 to A100 (with the same iPod and PB2), I can readily feel the sky is clearer and brighter.

            But, A100 is still too big (and odd) when training on the subway.  That’s why I am looking for a smaller size headphone.

            Thanks.

            • Reply December 6, 2011

              Mike

              Understood.

              Try the HD25-1? It’s much less dark than the P5.

          • Reply December 6, 2011

            StephenM

            I mean, travelling on the subway, not training.

          • Reply December 6, 2011

            StephenM

            Thanks, Mike.
            One last Q.  Why you not suggesting DT1350?

            • Reply December 6, 2011

              Mike

              I think you’ll get more treble from the HD25-1.

    • Reply December 6, 2011

      Katana

      Hi. Can you define what you call a ‘genuinely portable headphone’ ? As I see it most, if not all, headphones are portable. If space is an issue go for IEMs’ and there are plenty of ‘good’ ones out there. If space/size is not a problem you might find the Beyer T50p will do the job but only if you get them rewired.

      My Colorfly DAP fits inside the same case as the T50s (between the headband) and since I don’t need a seperate Amp and DAC with this player it suits me just fine.

  • Reply February 11, 2012

    Chi-Hwa Michael Ting

    Mike,
    I don’t plan on carrying any amp with my iPhone.  Do you think the DT1350 is too much to be driven straight out of an ipod/iPhone?  Should I turn to the T50p for its lower impedance?   I listen to Rock, Jazz, and Vocals.

    Thanks!

    • Reply February 11, 2012

      Mike

      You should be able to drive the DT1350 straight from your Iphone just fine, but an amp will add punch and impact to the bass.

      • Reply February 16, 2012

        Chi-Hwa Michael Ting

        Thanks for the respond Mike.

        However may I point out that in the end of this review you don’t recommend the DT1350 for Rock or Pop, but in the buyer’s guide you list the DT1350 as “Rock’in,” and very recommend it for Rock.  Perhaps you need to gather your thoughts on this headphone again?

        • Reply February 17, 2012

          Mike

          Yes sometimes that’s the difficulty of putting labels into things. The labels on the recommendations page are meant to be a rough guide. And if I have to put a label on the DT1350, it’s definitely not Hifi (that’s the B&W P5, HD650 and such), not monitoring, and it’s not open.
          The DT1350 is still closest to a rock and electronic headphone, it’s just that for Rock I think the HD25-1 is still better and that’s the context of this article.
          Sorry for the confusion and thanks for pointing that out.

  • Reply February 15, 2012

    Steve Wiser

    Over the last couple of months I acquired both the HD25-1 and DT1350  using  Moon Audio IEM Silver Dragon wire and both are terminated so that I can go either single ended or balanced.   I have the ALO Continental v2, HP-P1 and iBasso DB2 combo with the RSA SR-71B.  Right now my default best enjoyment is with the balanced DT1350 + iBasso DB2 + SR-71B using the iPod Touch 4 with lossless files.  This setup really has an impressive sound out of such a small headphone.   Going single ended the best combo is using the HD-25-1 with the ALO Continental v2 to me.  I just ordered the iBasso DX100 to add to the mix to continue my optimization of my portable/transportable setup.   Something most likely will be going on the For Sale forums.

    • Reply February 16, 2012

      Anonymous

      Wow, nice collection of gear! I am very curious to hear your impressions of the DX100 with the HD25’s!! Please keep us posted!

  • Reply April 15, 2012

    SoundEskimoo

    Innerfidelity gave New HD25-II Amperior good appreciation over old plastic HD25-II. How you think about that? Can ‘outdated’ driver with all metal housing finally give DT1350 a blow?

    If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it?

    • Reply April 16, 2012

      Mike

      I’ve yet to listen to the Amperior, but a friend of mine said the aluminum housing give it a slight metallic tinge. I don’t know, I’ve never been a fan of closed-back metal housing.. not easy to control the reverbs compared to a good plastic housing.
      But again I’ve yet to listen to the Amperior. He said the frequency balance is slightly warmer, less treble and fuller mids and lows than the HD25-1.

      • Reply April 26, 2012

        SoundEskimoo

        If you can get Amperior please write a review about it. Theoritically all metal housing will be better than plastics, that’s why some high end cans use material other than plastics such as woods or metal.

        • Reply April 26, 2012

          Mike

          It depends. The HD800 and HD700 use plastic and have better timbre than a lot of metal headphones. 

          I think high quality plastic can be engineered to surpass the acoustic property of metal. I mean metal is not a very good acoustic material. Metal speaker boxes are very rare. 

          • Reply April 27, 2012

            SoundEskimoo

            In the speaker world plastic tend to be worse than wood boxes, as i knew.
            Sennheiser loves plastics very much, no wood version like Denons

          • Reply April 27, 2012

            Mike

            Sorry I thought we’re talking about high quality plastic vs metal. 

          • Reply April 28, 2012

            SoundEskimoo

            yes i meant high quality plastic material vs high quality metal discussion.
            for note, HD25-1 II didnt use low grade plastics 

  • Reply April 26, 2012

    dalethorn

    My second DT1350 purchased in March has much less clamping than the one from April 2011, but also has a much more emphasized lower midrange and hollow sound. I suspect the only fix for this design would be larger cups and thicker earpads. The thicker earpads would help in getting a good seal for bass, as the current pads don’t seal well until several minutes on my ears.

    • Reply April 27, 2012

      Mike

      So they lessened the clamping force on the newer units?

      • Reply April 27, 2012

        dalethorn

        Yes – very noticeable difference. The new edition didn’t give me a headache in the least, but also doesn’t seal well. In warm humid weather which it is most of the time here, it seals pretty quickly. But in the winter time it takes forever. Holding it suspended by the headband and not having used it today, the earcup pads are 1-3/4 inches apart at the closest point.  I still like the 1350, it having some great detail and all – so I’m taking a hard look at the new T90 (I think that’s it). If someone can get a fix on how the highs are around 7 to 10 khz compared to the T70, I might spring for a T90 if it isn’t too bright. Got a couple months to save up some pennies.

        Edit: The pads themselves are unchanged, as is everything else.

  • Reply June 18, 2012

    SoundEskimoo

    With old tech but “second to none recipe” for already few decades HD25 still going strong (remember that even easy driving Amperior still built to be exactly 110% HD25-1 ii sound signature, it means Sennheiser felt nothing wrong with HD25 at all!), broader genres that it excels at. I skeptic dt1350 with it’s advanced Tesla technology will rule the world. I heard even V-moda M/V80 threaten HD25-1 ii superiority at a cheaper offering.

    I think Beyerdynamic should reconsider housing size at least on K518’s size to trounce the mighty HD25.

    From your analysis, how good will dt1350 compete with V-moda?

    • Reply June 18, 2012

      Mike

      This may seem absurd (Beyerdynamic vs Vmoda? One is a veteran company, the other a brand new player? C’mon!) I think the V-moda is generally more enjoyable and the one that I would go for personally.

      • Reply June 18, 2012

        SoundEskimoo

        I won’t talk about v-moda if their sound quality like rapper-endorsed headphone. If you talk about newer brands, some of them offer such blow, especially if old maker lazy to evolute. Aside from technicality, it offers you more nice sounding all-arounder. Will you still force yourself to buy $300 cans that only do little thing (genre)?
        If it so, any good reason for that?

        • Reply June 19, 2012

          dalethorn

          I thought the DT1350 had more potential than the M80 because of superior drivers and the detail you could hear. But in actual use it was easier to EQ the treble up some on the M80 and I never did get a satisfactory EQ setting to compensate the hollow sound of the DT1350, so I gave away my second 1350 last week.

          • Reply June 19, 2012

            Mike

            I agree. The DT1350 is difficult to EQ. The thing is whenever you have a problem in the mids, it’s always difficult to EQ to make it just right, since it’s hard to fill in the mids precisely. EQ-ing the treble and bass areas is generally easier.

          • Reply June 19, 2012

            SoundEskimoo

            Tesla indeed a revolutionary technology on dynamic driver. The other is planar-driver. While planar driver paved its way with awesome musicalities & technicalities. I’m kinda torn apart with beyer’s products.

            Why they built dt1350’s recipe on small housing and give kinda mixed bag results?
            To build a nice cans you need nice recipe, HD25 got that ingredients even their Amperior use the same ols’n’proven recipe.
            How’s the T70p compared to these anyway?

            It seems V-moda with old dynamic driver technology give you better overall musicality result.

            • Reply June 19, 2012

              dalethorn

              Actually I think Beyer got the size and shape right for the 1350, but the earpads and the critical fit make it difficult to adjust to. I have heard of mods that address that problem, and I would hope Beyer can improve that model or make a better new model in that format.

              • Reply June 19, 2012

                SoundEskimoo

                I saw people bragging M80 as HD25 replacement than dt1350 as HD25 replacement. Perhaps overall, M80 and HD25 are more ‘complete products’ as a package than dt1350 which excels at one side (highly detailed sound) but lack on other like limited genres.

              • Reply June 19, 2012

                Mike

                I think the size, while looks nice and works well for a portable, is too small to get a good sound out of.

                • Reply June 19, 2012

                  dalethorn

                  Well come to think of it, for $300 you’re right on. Now, for $200 it would be much more interesting.

            • Reply June 19, 2012

              Mike

              The thing wih the “old” dynamic driver technology is that they’ve been improved over and over and over again. It’s like the internal combustion gas engine, not very advanced design to begin with, but if you take a concept and continue to improve it, at one point it will be very good.
              I think the T70P is not that special. The DT770 is still overall a better headphone. The T5p however is a good one.

              • Reply June 19, 2012

                SoundEskimoo

                Tesla not yet matured as “old” one?
                I saw development of Planar gave better results. Strong competition from them. At quite short time of development.
                To make ‘overall better’ recipe is really hard. One example is “old” never-die HD25. Perhaps beyerdynamic’s still at early stage of it’s Tesla development.

                • Reply June 19, 2012

                  Mike

                  I never said that the Tesla driver is not matured. Beyer’s Tesla is still a dynamic driver.

                  • Reply June 20, 2012

                    SoundEskimoo

                    What i said is the result as a whole product. The best of Tesla still T1. Even DT770 had better sounding than T70 from your opinion. HD25 over dt1350, etc

                    • June 20, 2012

                      Mike

                      Well it’s a matter of tuning, really. I don’t think it’s a fault of the Tesla driver. And also I’m talking from the point of view of music listening (DT770 vs T70). We need to realize that Beyer probably designed the T70 for monitoring.

                    • June 20, 2012

                      SoundEskimoo

                      I prefer musicality & fun other than any technicalities gimmicks. Taste of sound better than the ingredients it came from.
                      Which tesla is the most musical & fun sounding right now?

                    • June 20, 2012

                      Mike

                      Gotta be the T1 and T5p.

                    • June 20, 2012

                      SoundEskimoo

                      Speaking premium segment, will you choose it over HD650?

                    • June 21, 2012

                      Mike

                      Technically they are far ahead the HD650.

                    • June 21, 2012

                      SoundEskimoo

                      I see

                • Reply June 19, 2012

                  dalethorn

                  Tesla in my view is the 2012 equivalent of the original Beyer DT48 design from 1937. A very high-tech design it is too, but in the end it’s how it sounds to you. The technology alone won’t make the headphone a success. My first planar was the Yamaha in the late 1970’s, but I didn’t think it sounded very good then. Today’s big models, the Audeze and HiFiMan, are much different. Very impressive sounds that you should hear yourself to understand what it’s all about.

                  • Reply June 20, 2012

                    Mike

                    Yes, I think the problem is not with the Tesla. Rather the implementation of it in the DT1350. The T1 and T5p, I think both are fine sounding headphones.
                    It’s like a race car. Just because you have a ferrari engine doesn’t mean you have a race-winning car.

                    • June 20, 2012

                      SoundEskimoo

                      Yes, only by installing ferrari engine wont make you have race-winning car

                  • Reply June 20, 2012

                    SoundEskimoo

                    How much time will it took for Beyerdynamic’s Tesla to achieve the same results as Planar?

                    • June 20, 2012

                      dalethorn

                      It’s not the same thing at all. Beyer’s Tesla is a very advanced driver, and so is their 75 year old DT48 driver. Very similar but of course the new Teslas are tuned much better for the more modern sound than the DT48. Planars are a very different technology. There is no comparison I can think of. Think for a moment about loudspeakers with full range drivers -vs- multi-drivers with crossovers. Or even planar loudspeakers. Much of that is going on with headphones. You can’t learn enough about those technologies here. Use Google instead. This review site will tell you the results of the actual products, but you need to read background on technologies where those articles are.

                    • June 20, 2012

                      SoundEskimoo

                      I’m not familiar with DT48, since im not in that business. From what i felt, Tesla in Beyerdynamic is better suited for pro-ears. Rather than mainstream one.
                      Profesional & the one who listen classical orchestral music.

  • Reply June 27, 2012

    SoundEskimoo

    After revisitting again, I thought that dt1350 somewhat very nice product.
    I describe the mids very very special, the bass going very very deep. Focused on low-bass. But sharp treble still need adaption. Overall felt more hi-fi than HD25.
    HD25’s seems has lower fidelity than this, also mids very recessed, and the bass which they admired so much didnt go very very deep, instead only focused on mid-bass segment.
    Bass punch still much more satisying on dt1350.
    Jazz & audiophile genres sang very lively on dt1350 than hd25’s recessed mid. Trance also nicer on dt1350, but I haven’t tried it with hiphop R&B.

    I think I’m in love with dt1350, Mike. Need a while to decide. Do you feel the same way?

  • Reply July 13, 2012

    SoundEskimoo

    Mike, question: which portable amp will unleash dt1350 ? Thanks.

    For WAV, FLAC, mp3 320 debate. From my own experience, mp3 changed the sound character tend to be more bassy, bit muddier, less airy & less sparks (lower fidelity). Compared to CD, WAV FLAC is about the same quality. The less the size, the less the “openness” in sound they give you.
    Now I cannot hear 96-128Kbps like ten years ago anymore , because on headphone the sub- quality made you annoyed. Speakers tend to forgive those sub-par quality format.

    • Reply July 13, 2012

      Mike

      I don’t know, never really got into the DT1350 sound. I think it’s hard for me to recommend an amp for it.

  • Reply August 6, 2012

    Anonymous

    […] […]

  • […] The Awesome Beyerdynamic DT 1350 | InnerFidelity Beyerdynamic DT1350: Death to the HD25-1? | Headfonia Shootout: 102 Portable Headphones Reviewed (Panasonic RP-HTF600 added […]

  • Reply October 16, 2012

    Jeffrey Sitthi

    I am finding the DT1350 amped with a CMoy too laid back (if that’s the opposite of being too forward) for my type of music. Everything sounds veiled and not “fun” like my SE215 iems. When I listen to music like Intro by M83, I like to hear the texture of the synths. The M50s did a great job of this, but they leaked too much sound to use in a library. Based on this information, what headphone would you recommend me? Thanks!

    • Reply October 16, 2012

      Mike

      Jeff,
      Try the M-80 Vmoda or the HD25-1, though I don’t know how well they would do in a library setting.

    • Reply July 10, 2013

      Eric Thompson

      Yeah the 215’s are laid back, id go HD25-1-II and maybe the GR07 for IEM’s? or TF10’s

  • Reply December 23, 2012

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    zayiflama ilaci

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  • […] for an android phone, perhaps the best yet in my experience. So far I’ve only tested with my Beyerdynamic DT1350‘s and it can drive them easily. My reference tracks are from the Best of Hans Zimmer and […]

  • Reply May 22, 2013

    Eric Thompson

    For $200 1350’s or Amperiors? Blue Amperiors are $216 on amazon and 1350’s are $200

    I will like the extra detail and bass in the 1350’s but you seem to think that the HD25’s may be better or its pretty close so the amperiors should be way better than the 1350’s right?

    Only other think I can think of would be the M80’s?

    • Reply July 11, 2013

      Mike

      Eric,
      The new batch of M80s we get are somewhat veiled and lacking detail. The M100 however is the new replacement for the HD25-1 and I think it’s currently the best portable headphone out there.

      • Reply July 11, 2013

        Eric Thompson

        Hmmm really? What do you mean by new batch? I didn’t find the M80’s lacking detail, actually I found them very detail for a fashion headphone but maybe it was just my expectation’s going in, but they are a little laid back in the high’s for my taste but most people were upset with the M100’s at how bassy and V-shaped they are. So the M100’s are better than the HD25’s? Will there be a M80/M100 review?

        I’m looking into the AKG550’s or the Momentum’s right now but wasn’t really considering the M100’s as I thought they were in a lower category of fidelity.

        • Reply July 11, 2013

          dalethorn

          I bought a V80 when it first came out, and it had a recessed treble. Then v-moda sent me a white M80 almost a year later, and its sound was identical to the V80, i.e. recessed treble. The M100 doesn’t have a recessed treble or significantly recessed mids – the bass simply overpowers the mids. If you used ipod / itunes bass reducer on the M100, you would have a nearly perfect headphone signature from top to bottom, no matter what amp or DAC you use. I don’t find such a simple fix for the M80 though.

  • […] First, a review from Headfonia. I like this website very much because of authors’ critical point of views. Beyerdynamic DT1350: Death to the HD25-1? […]

  • Reply December 19, 2013

    Nik

    Hello Mike
    I’m trying to complete my equipment to listen to music during my business trips.
    After the AK120, following your advice I took the Etymotic ER-4PT and amplifier Alo The International, and I am really satisfied.
    But I would always a small headphone (no matter whether open or closed).
    I listened to the Fidelio L2. I like much the sound signature, but consider it a bit too big. I saw the Beyerdynamic DT1350 (but I have not been able to hear).
    It has the right size for me. Do you think it will work well with the AK120, with or without amplifier? Or, for a natural sound, I might be more than satisfied with a highly portable PX100 II?
    Thank you again

    • Reply December 19, 2013

      Mike

      Hi Nik,
      If you want something like the DT1350 then get the new T51 which is the newest version of that variants. Personally I love the PX100-II paired with the AK120 but we’re talking Beyer vs Senn here.

  • Reply January 21, 2016

    DTSxJP

    I have a question, how does the DT 1350 sound with the Oppo HA-2?

  • Reply August 30, 2016

    david loos

    “…from Prodigy to Muse”

    wow, that’s quite a range. here’s a question: why would i consider a headphone review valid from someone who doesn’t even listen to good music?

    • Reply August 30, 2016

      dale thorn

      I have some serious friends who like Muse. Don’t know about Prodigy though. Anyway, it’s a 5 year old review, and 5 years in the music business sees a lot of change for any band.

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